February 16th, 2006

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05:22 pm - on sex on the first date...
Sinfest: On the First Date
On the First Date. 3/22/2000
So a few weeks ago, beststephi and I got into this conversation with atraxen and his girlfriend, Gabriella about the age old topic of "sex on the first date." I had been meaning to put some thoughts down about that here ever since then. But I never got around to it. However, due to the nice little Hallmark holiday we had a couple days ago, I figured now was a good time to put it out there.

Do boys lose respect for a girl who has sex on the first date?

So, when I was a middle upper class teenaged white girl growing up in the fifties, my mother would often pull me aside and say to me, "Mavina, boys don't like girls who are too fast. Just because the boy buys you dinner, that doesn't mean you owe him anything. He'll respect you more if you wait for marriage. If you go to far with him on the first date, he'll never call you again." Or something like that. I don't really remember, because I've never actually been a teenaged white girl in the sixties. But I have seen an episode or two of Father Knows Best, so I'm pretty sure it went kind of like.

But does it make any sense? Not at all. Pretty much every statement there is false.

1) Boys don't like girls who are fast - Uh, yes we do. Trust me. You get me a room of ten single teenaged boys and you tell them to pick between the hot girl in a miniskirt with a bare midriff halter top who wants to skip dinner and the movie and go straight to necking in the back seat of the and the conservatively dressed cardigan sweatered mousy type who has to be home by 9:30 and ask them to choose, I can bet you eight of them go with the hot girl. And the two who don't? One is a bible thumping fundamentalist who is probably no fun anyway, and the other is gay.

2) Just because the boy buys you dinner, that doesn't mean you owe him anything - Ok, "owe" may be a strong word, but there is a reason we're buying dinner, and it ain't because there's just too much money in our pockets. Don't get me wrong. This isn't prostitution (not that there's anything wrong with that, because there isn't). But a guy spends money on a chick for one reason. And that is to impress the pants off of her. Are we expecting sex on the first date? Ok, maybe not. But we're sure as hell hoping. That's why you're eating Red Lobster and not Burger King, dammit. Now I ain't sayin' you're a gold digga, but you ain't messin with no broke niggas.

3) He'll respect you more if you wait for marriage - Ok, am I alone here in thinking that "waiting for marriage to have sex" idea is really fucking stupid? I mean, what if the sex sucks? Seriously. Ok, I guess the common argument is that if you'd only slept with one person, you'd not have anything to compare that to. But that's bullshit. Brussel sprouts suck too. Not because I'm comparing them to how something else is. They're just nasty. Is that superficial? You're supposed to think the physical part of the relationship doesn't matter. Bullshit. If sex doesn't matter, then you're doing it wrong.

4) Go too far on the first date and he'll never call you again - You ever get a blow job on the first date? I have. You know what I did the next morning. I fucking called! Why? Because I wanted another. The only way this one is true is if its meant to be a one night stand, or if the sex is really bad. And if the sex is really bad then its definitely best to get it out of the way on the first date so that we don't waste any more of each others time.

So where does the respect issue come from? Gabby seemed to really think there was something there. She honestly believed that boys thought about that sort of thing. Kevin and I both agreed that we don't. Boys like sex. We like girls who like to give out sex. I always hear that boys "want to marry a virgin." That's bullshit too. If a boy is going to promise to be with a girl for the rest of his life then he wants her to be experienced and to know some tricks. Is there anyone reading this who's only ever been with one person? And is still with them? And wants to talk about it? Anyone ever deflower a girl (or boy) and they knew instinctively where to put everything, how to move just right, how to do that thing with their tongue? Because I think you need practice and experience to learn that shit, and I think that comes from experimenting with different people over a long time.

"Yeah, the 72 virgins are interesting for a while, but eventually you're going to want a finger up your ass...and who will be there to do it?"
-Dennis Miller, the Raw Feed,
on the foolishness of receiving virgins as a reward in the afterlife

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong... I wanna know what you think, America... blah blah blah...

Current Music: Through the Wire by Kanye West

(14 comments | Leave a comment)

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From: (Anonymous) Date: February 16th, 2006 - 11:12 pm (Link)
You wanna know what I think? I think it's damn sexy to experiment and get better with one person XP I'm still with my first significant other, and we're going strong. Haven't had sex yet, but we sure as hell have fun anyway.

I'm totally not bashing your views, but that's my opinion, you asked for it XP
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 16th, 2006 - 11:41 pm (Link)
I did ask and that's totally what I wanted, honesty. Since you're anonymous I don't know if you're a regular reader or not. I'm frequently very beligerant when I write these, and much less so in the comments. I am totally looking for as many different viewpoints as possible. So thank you for yours...

Since you're anon, can you give me a little demographic info? Are you male ore female? How old? How long has said first significant relationship been going?

Also, what does XP mean?

Thanx for answering...
[User Picture]From: dgr Date: February 20th, 2006 - 02:28 am (Link)
I think he/she is sticking his/her tongue out at you for your notorious classic-male POV.

Which you totally have the voice down for, by the way. (Admittedly it is close to the actual Mav voice, but hey, write what you know, right?)

[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 20th, 2006 - 01:39 pm (Link)
nah, the actual Mav voice is a lovable teddy bear. But its not very entertaining to read in a complainy blogging context.

But if I were using that voice to write smutty romantic stuff, you'd totally be swooning now...

[User Picture]From: sui66iy Date: February 16th, 2006 - 11:14 pm (Link)
First of all, we might lose respect for a girl, but we wouldn't "loose" it.

Second, you conflate having sex on the first date with waiting for marriage, which are opposite ends of the spectrum. It is in fact the common case to neither wait for marriage nor have sex on the first date.

A big issue I have with having sex with someone on the first date is one of trust and safety. If it's the first date, it's likely that you don't know the person all that well. If you don't know the person that well, it's not safe to have sex with them. If they are willing to have sex with *you* on the first date, it's likely that they have had zillions of sexual partners, which means their risk for carrying something nasty is much higher.

Now, I know lots of people who have lots of partners but are quite careful and responsible. But it's a better idea to convince yourself of that care and responsibility by getting to know them before exchanging bodily fluids (condoms ain't perfect).

But let's say we live in some mystical paradise of perfect birth control and immunity from disease. Would it then be a good idea to have sex on the first date? Well, maybe not. There's good reason to believe that sex (and, in particular, intercourse) stimulates hormones that promote pair-bonding. Certainly one could be forgiven for thinking that sex is a powerful symbol that represents the claim "I am willing to have a child with you" even if neither of you have any actual such intentions.

So sex is a powerful thing, chemically and symbolically. Do you want to unleash that power on a first date? Frankly, I want the freedom *not* to call the person back. I don't necessarily want sex clouding my judgement or theirs until it seems like the relationship might last a bit longer.

All that said, we've all had flings and some folks are pretty good at handling casual sex. But not everyone is, and for good reason.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 17th, 2006 - 12:05 am (Link)
1) fixed... thanx... damn typos that are another word.

2) only for convenience sake. I was trying to limit the waiting til you're married thing to the 3rd bullet.

So yeah, I don't necessarilly disagree with you. And I didn't mean to suggest that sex on the first date was mandatory, more that I think that having a "rule" against it is kinda silly. I will grant the practicality of your trust issue. But I still think that the classic sitcoms rationals (which some people seem to still adhere to) for why are kinda silly and outdated.

Ignoring the trust issue, do you honestly respect someone less for first date sex?
[User Picture]From: qiika Date: February 17th, 2006 - 12:52 am (Link)
Unless a not-date was to the clinic together, yes, I honestly respect someone less if they want to have sex on the first date. It's a respect issue - respect for themselves and their respect for their potential partner(s) are questioned if things like protection from and prevention of STD are not taken into consideration.

And I should count as a guy when it comes to my views about sex.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 17th, 2006 - 01:06 am (Link)
nah, you don't count as a guy. Just a person. Sorry...

hmm... that's a fair view. I don't know that I agree with it. I don't think that there's a common mental connection between safe sex protection and actual accompaniment to the clinic. Like Mike, I guess you're assuming that a first date means you don't know the person ahead of time. That has very VERY infrequently been the case for me.

But the real thing here is, and this has to do with why you don't count as a "guy" given your answer, the insinuation from the "mom-esque" quotes, and what I was getting at in the post, is that the boy will want to have sex with the girl, and will totally do so if given the opportunity. But then won't respect the girl after, because secretly we boys want innocent virginal girls.
[User Picture]From: qiika Date: February 17th, 2006 - 01:12 am (Link)
Okay, you've got me there. I know of no one in our age bracket who has actually said that they want to marry a virgin.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 17th, 2006 - 01:17 am (Link)
ah... I actually know some... and similarly those who wanted to remain as such until married...

and certainly several who were waiting until they found the person they intended to marry.
[User Picture]From: qiika Date: February 17th, 2006 - 12:15 pm (Link)
You must interact with a better cross-section, then.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 17th, 2006 - 12:40 pm (Link)
depends on what your definition of "better." broader certainly...
[User Picture]From: blk Date: February 20th, 2006 - 04:27 am (Link)
So, from the other side... do you lose respect for a girl who WON'T have sex with you on the first date? (or something.. even kiss you)
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: February 20th, 2006 - 01:43 pm (Link)
lose respect? Not at all, in fact I very much respect someone who sticks to their convictions, even if I happen to think their convictions are stupid. That said, I'd likely be disappointed and probably feel like something was wrong with me, or there was no chemistry or it was in some other way a bad date if there wasn't at least a kiss at the end and it would likely hamper my wanting another one. Not necessarilly be a deal breaker. But it certainly would point me in that direction.

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