July 28th, 2006

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12:22 pm - on children, clones and cell research...

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on children, clones and cell research... - graffiti.maverick — LiveJournal

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[User Picture]From: zyrain Date: July 28th, 2006 - 07:35 pm (Link)
Your first line there is an assertion that is not universally held. In fact, it is held in the minority. Most people do believe that there is a universal right and wrong. Religion is such a powerful force exactly because of that fact.
[User Picture]From: bogosort Date: July 29th, 2006 - 03:24 pm (Link)
Actually, I think you've just argued to me that I am in fact correct in my assertion. There are many religions out there who each believe in their own view of universal right and wrong. Since they are different, clearly there is no such thing from one who takes a step back and takes an objective glance at it.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: July 31st, 2006 - 02:11 am (Link)
but that's the point really. Its not about universal truth the way its true that gravity always pulls down. Its about conjective truth, like whether or not there's a god. What matters is whether the population in question believes in god (or a soul, or abortion or stem cell research), the rationales behind their beliefs, or the particulars of slight differences between their beliefs isn't strictly relevant.
[User Picture]From: zyrain Date: July 31st, 2006 - 02:53 pm (Link)
That doesn't follow. The holding of different beliefs by different groups yields the conclusion that there is no consensus on what is universally right or wrong, not that universal right and wrong does not exist. One or none of the groups could hold the 'correct' beliefs.

Now, this is playing devil's advocate in some sense, since, personally, I agree with you and that it's obvious to any rational person that morality is subjective. However, rational people only make up about 5% of the population. As such, using rational arguments to justify a stance that affects the whole population may not be useful.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: July 31st, 2006 - 02:07 am (Link)

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