September 27th, 2006


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01:51 pm - on banning public smoking...

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on banning public smoking... - graffiti.maverick — LiveJournal

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Comments:


[User Picture]From: marmal8 Date: September 27th, 2006 - 08:30 pm (Link)
Do you really know of any bands that survey their fans to find out if a smoking or non-smoking venue is preferable? I've never heard of it.

The fallacy with your argument, that restaurants, bars, and boob establishments had the option of not allowing smoking, is that I know of no restaurant, bar, or boob establishment in a smoking-allowed city that has chosen "don't smoke here at all." (Maybe there are/were and I never heard of them, because, they sucked or went out of business quickly.) Just because in theory they had that option, doesn't mean that in practice there was anywhere serving booze, food, or breasts, that one could go to enjoy those things without smoke. Sure one can go to the library, but there's no booze there. So "go places without smoking" is only a useful argument if there are actual options and not theoretical ones.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: September 27th, 2006 - 08:47 pm (Link)
that's not a fallacy in the argument at all. Its evidence of the very free enterprise I am debating with apestyle above.

The problem is that despite the public outcry one way or the other, most people just don't care, so its up to the establishment to decide which way they want to lean, and it turns out that its more economical to lean towards the smokers in this case. And that should be ok. Smoking is a red herring. It is prime for argument because of the health risk, but really we're just talking about personal preference. Are you really arguing that I should be forced to open country western clubs just because there's no good places to go for country music and hip hop, techno, salsa and rock offend you? Why aren't there any good aboriginal music establishments? If it is so important to non-smokers to have non-smoking clubs, then for HOVA's sake, someone open one. I swear, if it's cool, I'll deal with not smoking for a night, just so I can go. The fact that there aren't enough people who care to do the right thing through enterprise doesn't mean that there should be laws forcing the wrong thing to happen for everyone from the other camp who does care enough to do the right thing through enterprise to go the other way.

And for the record, the Rex doesn't allow smoking. And there was a non-smoking bowling alley in Pgh I went to. And there are plenty of non-smoking restaurants and coffee houses. I'm betting there are bars out there too, I just never went out of my way to find one because I've always either been a smoker, or in times where I wasn't, I was among the 70% who just didn't care.
[User Picture]From: marmal8 Date: September 27th, 2006 - 09:02 pm (Link)
I'm not arguing that anyone should be forced to open any establishment. I'm saying if the establishment isn't actually in existence, it's silly to tell me that I have the option of going there.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: September 27th, 2006 - 09:10 pm (Link)
But my point is that if there is enough of a public demand for such an establishment, then it would exist. The reason you don't have a ton of smoke free bars is that most people don't care enough for there to be one. As I pointed out, the Rex is (or at least was, I don't want to say for sure) one.

That's why I brought up the aboriginal music scene. If you're offended by salsa music but love aboriginal, you can't just demand that all the salsa clubs switch. You just have to seek out a good aboriginal club. The fact that there aren't any isn't the responsibility of the county.
[User Picture]From: jameel Date: September 28th, 2006 - 12:26 pm (Link)
The free market doesn't have the general health of the population in mind, and it shouldn't. That's what the government is for.
 

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