March 31st, 2007

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03:08 am - on strippers and singing...

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on strippers and singing... - graffiti.maverick — LiveJournal

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From: nckd Date: April 2nd, 2007 - 10:41 pm (Link)
There do exist strip clubs where they treat the employees respectfully, pay them decently, and yes, generally, there's a big guy to throw the assholes out.

On the other hand, I've never known anyone who took a job stripping for any reason other than that their lives were fucked and they couldn't get any other job. There are plenty of strip clubs out there which shade pretty quickly into hardcore drugs and prostitution.

So the "looking at titties is bad" aspect of seeing strip clubs as exploitative I can take or leave. As a practical matter, though, I've never had a software job where I felt I had to have sex with the customers to pay my bills.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: April 2nd, 2007 - 11:15 pm (Link)
I'll certainly grant that. But I'll also note (and this is just a guess) that your experience with strippers is probably limited. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have taken jobs stripping just because they consider it fun (i know some).

But I consider that an aside. The real issue is whether or not that's an argument against them existing. Let's say that all strippers are drugged out, incestuous rape victims who are one lapdance above full time prostitution to pay this weeks crack bill. Is that a fault of the strip club? Drugged out, incestuous rape victims with crack habits deserve gainful employment as well. And even if one could prove that the stripping industry attracts that type of person, that's not really an indictment of the clubs, its an argument against the kind of damage to a woman's psyche that is caused by being raped and on drugs. To put it another way, becoming a software engineer didn't make you smart. You became a software engineer because you are smart. (this is a straw man, by the way. I've certainly met smart strippers and programmers with crack problems)

Anyway, the problem here is that the very concept of exploitive is by its nature very subjective. You consider the clubs exploitive because you don't like dancing around naked in front of people. You consider prostitution exploitive because you don't like having sex with random strangers in dark alleys. On the other hand, I've had PLENTY of software jobs where I felt like I was being exploited and I'd much rather the client simply paid me to fuck them.

Sure, there's always gonna be clubs where there are girls working there who don't really want to be there. But there are tons of lawyers who are only lawyers because their parents forced them to be as well. Conversely, there are rock and roll musicians who are only doing it because they want to rebel against the way they were brought up, and ministers who are attempting to atone for the sins of their past as well. I don't consider any of this an argument against strip clubs though. Its more just an argument that there are certain causes and effects of life and upbringing.
[User Picture]From: lonelocust Date: April 3rd, 2007 - 03:48 am (Link)
Just as someone with contradictory anectdotal evidence, I know a lot of strippers who took the job because they wanted it or thought the money for hours worked was great or other things besides "didn't have anything else to do".

Though all of my friends who are strippers do report that there's a pretty high percentage of substance-addicted, not that bright, and/or just plain crazy flaky strippers. I would suspect that's a function of it being a job that's easier to hold for some people who aren't so hot at doing the normal 9-5 thing. And there's lots of reasons for being not so hot at doing the normal 9-5 thing. I suck at it, because it eats my soul. But being on drugs, stupid, and flaky could certainly yield the same result of being bad at the 9-5. (My hypothesis is pure conjecture based on a limited and non-random sampling of aquaintences. I would need more data to be more certain of my tendency to believe the reason for this high percentage of flaky druggies.)
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: April 4th, 2007 - 04:24 am (Link)
that's my point. Even assuming that all strippers were DD breasted, blonde bimbos with single digit IQs(and they aren't) don't those people deserve to make a living too? I find the statement "strip clubs are exploitive" to be a bit sexist and rather offensive actually. It implies that women don't have the right to present themselve as sex objects even if they choose to.
[User Picture]From: lonelocust Date: April 4th, 2007 - 06:03 am (Link)
I agree with you on both of those. If hypothetically all strippers were strippers because they couldn't do anything else, it's not like not having the option of stripping would make their lot better; they just couldn't do ANYTHING then.

And yeah, someone can choose to be a tech support object or a software engineering object or a truck-driving object or a naked dancing object. Work for most people isn't about being cherished and appreciated as a fully-dimensioned and fully-known individual. If you're appreciated just for your technical expertise or just for your ability to smile and not grit your teeth at assholes who decide they hate a company's product or just your sweet sweet ass, what's the difference in a larger sense? If someone is horrified by being appreciated only for their ass, then yeah, it would suck for them to do it. If someone is horrified by being appreciated only for whatever other job function, it sucks if they do that, too.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: April 4th, 2007 - 06:13 am (Link)
exactly, and who's to say there is anything wrong with wanting to be appricated and cherished for your sweet sweet ass. I know I do.

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