November 20th, 2007


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02:07 am - on may-december romances and karaoke with strippers...
The other day, Steph and I were playing Scruples with friends when I was given a pretty interesting question. The premise was that if I get divorced, would I invite my new girlfriend to spend the night with me while my adolescent children were home. This transgressed into a conversation about how as I'd be in my mod 40s, my new girlfriend was likely around 19, which led to my commenting about how one of my life goals is to bed an 18 year old once I turn 36, just because there's something magical about banging someone half your age.

Amazingly, I am still in a relationship.

Anyway, Steph and Kim stated that they thought it was wrong for someone in their 40s to be dating a teenager. George and I maintained that while a little out of the ordinary there was nothing specifically wrong with it. Obviously one could look at the breakdown of our little survey of four and determine that, well... men are pigs. This may be true, but I actually had a little more logic to it than that. The girls theorized that because of the age difference between say, a 43 year old man and a 19 year old woman, the two could never have a compatible enough life experience to have a relationship and that it could only be about raunchy, dirty, unbridled sex and that that was slimy. While I have no problem with basing a relationship on raunchy, dirty, unbridled sex, I personally feel that assuming two people aren't right for each other because of their ages is just as prejudiced as assuming they can't be together because of their races, religions or genders. It just seems wrong to me. Maybe the 19 year old is amazingly mature. Maybe the 43 year old is amazingly immature. Maybe neither and they're just people.

I've always heard the "rule" that you should only date people who are older than half your age plus seven. But does that really hold true? So I'm wondering, how do other people feel about this sort of thing.

Also, Pittsburgh people: I've decided to get a group of people together for some post-Thanksgiving karaoke on Friday. Not just karaoke, BAREOKE! At the Tennyson Lodge. Basically, its karaoke while strippers dance around you. Its great fun. Anyone else interested in going with us? (men and women welcome, of course)

(64 comments | Leave a comment)

 
on may-december romances and karaoke with strippers... - graffiti.maverick

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Comments:


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[User Picture]From: apestyle Date: November 20th, 2007 - 08:11 am (Link)
Mine was the "5 year rule", which essentially says no 5 years older nor younger than myself. Outside 5 years, our ability to have similar enough tastes and levels of maturity tends to be glaringly different.
[User Picture]From: pallmalls Date: November 20th, 2007 - 02:30 pm (Link)
I have a similar lower-bound rule: "Don't date anyone younger than MTV." It's a nice linearly-progressing cutoff, and doesn't involve any of that pesky math.
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:14 pm (Link)
From: pallmalls Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:00 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:04 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:01 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: tmaher Date: November 20th, 2007 - 09:12 am (Link)
Speaking from some personal experience, there's a *huge* difference between a 43 year old dating a 19 year old, and say a 53 year old dating a 23 year old. The former is moderately skanky. The latter is no big deal.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:16 pm (Link)
see, I'd be more inclined to accept the 43/19 relationship than the 53/23 one. At least without knowing anything else about your fictional people than their ages. The latter one sounds a lot skankier to me. It has an aura of "dirty old man" about it.
From: tmaher Date: November 20th, 2007 - 08:37 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 09:04 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: lonelocust Date: November 20th, 2007 - 11:12 am (Link)
Well, I always say age doesn't matter unless you're a cheese. In reality, there's probably few 19- + 43-year-olds that would have a huge amount in common, but there's sure to be some, and besides that whose god damned business is it to judge the relationships that other people choose to be in short of said relationships being abusive?
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:17 pm (Link)
that was pretty much my entire argument in a nutshell, yeah.
From: katieboyd Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:36 pm (Link)
From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:45 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:55 pm (Link)
From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 05:09 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:04 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:55 pm (Link)
From: lonelocust Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:20 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 05:02 pm (Link)
From: lonelocust Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:06 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 05:05 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 12:51 pm (Link)
Okay, first up, that whole age thing is just one more thing that society has saddled us with. There's nothing absolute about it; it's about as arbitrary as you can get. Personally, I don't want to have a relationship with any teenagers because, well, I don't like teenagers in general.

On the "half plus seven" rule, as you get older, that becomes less of a rule and more of a rough guideline. At thirty-six, half plus seven is twenty-five, which cuts out four post-twenty years. Hell with that.

So, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a large age difference in a couple or two people just having sex. I'm also unsurprised that Steph and Kim do think it's inherently wrong.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:29 pm (Link)
it doesn't surprise me that they feel this way either. Not really, but that said, when I explained my reasons why I disagreed, they seemed unable to give me a cohesive argument for it other than basically "its wrong" or "you can't have anything in common because your life experience is too different." The "it's wrong" argument is lame and essentially comes down to "eww, its icky" which holds no water with me. The other argument I'd entertain, I just want someone to explain to me how its any different than arguing that whites shouldn't date blacks because their life experiences are so different. (Steph and Kim's only argument here was that our life experiences aren't that different. George and I totally called bullshit here)
From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:39 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:06 pm (Link)
From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:10 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:38 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: tobalita Date: November 20th, 2007 - 01:02 pm (Link)
I don't think there's anything morally wrong with a large age gap in a relationship.

However, I've never found anyone attractive who was more than a couple years older or younger than me. So large gaps still kinda make me go "eew".
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:44 pm (Link)
see, to me that's different. You're speaking on a personal level. There's a big difference between saying "I don't find black men attractive" and "I don't find blonde women attractive." and "white shouldn't date black people" or "brunettes are too smart to date blondes."

You're attracted to what you're attracted to. That's fine. I'm not attracted to men, but I don't have a problem with men who are.
[User Picture]From: jameel Date: November 20th, 2007 - 01:13 pm (Link)
One more thing for people to consider: is there a difference between older man/younger woman and older woman/younger man?
[User Picture]From: atraxen Date: November 20th, 2007 - 01:50 pm (Link)
Yes. And Ashton Kutcher must PAY for keeping Demi Moore from filming at Bareoke in various states of undress.

Speaking of which, if Gabriela and I are back in town early enough (*and not totally worn out) we'll try to make it!
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:45 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:44 pm (Link)
From: pallmalls Date: November 20th, 2007 - 05:25 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 06:09 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: retrospection_ Date: November 20th, 2007 - 02:26 pm (Link)
well you already know i can't go on friday but my friend is leaving town forever in december and if its worth it that might be his going away party.

let me know how it is
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:45 pm (Link)
Oh, I've been before. It's great.
[User Picture]From: suicideking Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:14 pm (Link)
The long and the short of it is that very few people have the same things in common when they have that much of an age gap. A 19 year old woman is not looking for the same things outta life as a 40 something man. Sure, law of averages says that a compatable coupling could occur, but the odds are pretty slim.

So yeah, you can date that young and have fun and what not, but the odds of finding anything that will last are pretty slim. I mean, you don't go looking for wine in the grape juice isle.

And my rule was no long term thing with anyone who is five years younger. But that was just me.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:49 pm (Link)
see, I don't think its fair to say that the 19 year old and the 43 year old are looking for different things. Maybe they both want a serious relationship. Maybe they both want sex. Who's to say? I can see saying on average they want different things, but individuals are individuals.

Five years difference seems like way too little to me. I mean, I'm 33, and I certainly can see myself dating a 23 year old or a 43 year old.
From: suicideking Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:24 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 05:07 pm (Link)
From: suicideking Date: November 20th, 2007 - 08:57 pm (Link)
From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 09:02 pm (Link)
[User Picture]From: akiramich Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:43 pm (Link)
I dont really want to talk a lot about it, since its still so new, but my "new friend" is 14 years younger than I am. And right now we are having a great time. And honestly I try not to think too far ahead, and just focus on the good time we have right now. I think one of the reasons we are getting on is because we have a similar background of interests [we are both theater people] so there is lots to talk about and share there. There are different life experiences [for instance she has a young daughter] but I think if you care about someone you focus and listen to everything they have to say and share and just enjoy that persons company.

And there have been times where I have argued [mostly with myself] about the kinds of women Id want to be involved with, but had I stuck to that I would never have been having the wonderful time Im having right now. I think if your single it always helps to keep your mind and your heart open. You just never know...
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 03:52 pm (Link)
And there have been times where I have argued [mostly with myself] about the kinds of women Id want to be involved with, but had I stuck to that I would never have been having the wonderful time Im having right now. I think if your single it always helps to keep your mind and your heart open. You just never know...


That's my main point, I don't think it makes sense to just dismiss something for so simple a reason.
[User Picture]From: avocado_tom Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:16 pm (Link)
OH! I might finally have time to go to BAREOKE! Woot!

What are you thinking, time-wise? And...are people carpooling?
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:57 pm (Link)
they open at 8. But we don't need to be there that early, and yeah carpools could happen.
[User Picture]From: viscous Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:43 pm (Link)
I would potentially take you up on the karaoke but I have Avenue Q tickets that night.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 20th, 2007 - 04:57 pm (Link)
ah cool... enjoy it.
[User Picture]From: mirvana Date: November 20th, 2007 - 07:15 pm (Link)
I was 35 and he was 19, that's close enough, right?
[User Picture]From: mirvana Date: November 20th, 2007 - 07:17 pm (Link)
Uh...and I'm not going there again. I now play by the "they have to be at least half your age +7 rule."
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 21st, 2007 - 04:56 am (Link)
as a 43 year old...if I wasn't married, I'd definitely be hitting on any moderately available lady between about 20 and 50. Because, really age is just a number.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 21st, 2007 - 05:14 am (Link)
I take it this is Jim, right? And I think I'm in the same boat as you.
[User Picture]From: tetroc Date: November 21st, 2007 - 01:58 pm (Link)
Okay, Mav and I have talked about this at Phantom (the comics shop), and having had some personal experience I feel compelled to respond.

First of all, the age thing just doesn't matter to me. If people click, they click. In the long term there may be problems, but I think we all know couples who are the same age who haven't been able to make a relationship work. Everyone has issues and some times you can work them out and sometimes you can't. Age is one of them.

4-5 years ago I was in a relationship with a girl 20 years younger than me (she turned 21 shortly after we started dating). We both knew it was a "just for now/no long term" kind of thing. We dated for a year and then she moved on. In the long term her goals included marriage/kids, etc. I was never the option for that and we both knew it. It was a good year, we parted as friends, and I think we both learned a lot from it. She was mature for her age and I think it can be safely argued that I'm not, so maybe that helped. What we both wanted right then was an intimate friendship. I think I brought her a different perspective on men and relationships than she was getting from the 20 year olds she had dated, and she brought me wonderful conversations and an enthusiasm for life that a lot of people my age have lost. It wasn't about the future, it wasn't about the sex, it was about the friendship.

As an update, she is now married to my best friend, with all the plans for the future between them. House, dog, planning kids, all that stuff. There's 15 years between them and they seem to me to be the most compatible couple I know. And we're all still friends. It was a valuable and life changing experience for all of us, one I wouldn't trade for anything. If I had dismissed the possibility out of hand because of her age I would have missed many of the best experiences of my life.

It all depends on who the people are and what they want out of it.
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 21st, 2007 - 04:11 pm (Link)
and for the record, I never found you guys icky in the slightest. Well her, anyway, you're clearly a dirty old man.

Seriously, you'd be a key example to this issue, there's no rule that says that your personality is based on your age, so there can't be a rule that says your age necessarily controls your compatibility with someone else.
[User Picture]From: marcmandrake Date: November 23rd, 2007 - 01:34 pm (Link)
I dont think you can hang it up just on age alone
At say... 19... you run the chance of the girl either not being mature enough, which is very possible... or actually being quite mature, and able to handle a relationship with a 40+ male

I personally view age as just a number, but then, my wife is 10 years younger then me too, and mature enough to handle such a relationship
Truth be told, she is more mature then many women my age, and for us, it works
We both are very happily married

I dont think basing a relationship just on sex is a good idea... but to be honest and fair, different people base their relationships on different things... for some, a relationship built on sex, while we may view it as shallow, is perfect for someone else
Who are we to determine right or wrong there

I do happen to agree with you on the idea of bedding a woman half your age, I think that is a very common fantasy amongst guys... I know it is me lol

-Marc
[User Picture]From: chrismaverick Date: November 26th, 2007 - 03:11 pm (Link)
The relationship based on sex thing is a side issue I think. I think the assumption is that a man 40 year old man could want nothing more with a 20 year old woman. I think that assumption is faulty to begin with, but even assuming its not, I don't see the problem with it. It's their own business. That was my only reason for bringing it up.

The real crux of the situation is what you mentioned first. I don't think its fair to assume someone's personality or maturity level based exclusively on their age.
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